Location: 4e to 3e Conversion

Discussion: Project PurposeReported This is a featured thread

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Xagyg
Xagyg
Project Purpose
Jun 19 2008, 10:36 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 19 2008, 10:36 AM EDT
One distinction I'm trying to make in my work on this project is to avoid overlapping it with house rules. I'm working on a system conversion, rather than a house rules type thing. For example, when I post my skills conversion, it's without thought to fixing things like the Diplomacy problem. That's a house rule, not a system thing...yet. Do you find this valuable?    
Keyword tags: 3e 4e d&d
bishopkoko
bishopkoko
1. RE: Project Purpose
Jun 23 2008, 2:48 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 23 2008, 2:48 PM EDT
I'm knew to this whole Wiki thing and this site. But what's the Diplomacy problem? Do you find this valuable?    
Xagyg
Xagyg
2. RE: Project Purpose
Jun 23 2008, 5:20 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 23 2008, 5:20 PM EDT
"I'm knew to this whole Wiki thing and this site. But what's the Diplomacy problem?"
I was talking about the idea that in 3.x you can max out Diplomacy skill and then just talk your way out of every situation.

It was just an example of something that people House Rule. :) Do you find this valuable?    
rauthik
rauthik
3. RE: Project Purpose
Jun 23 2008, 11:29 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 23 2008, 11:29 PM EDT
I'm still confused as to why you want to convert 4e to 3e. Isn't 3e a complete system on its own? If there are problems with it, then why not try out 4e and see if you like that better?
I'm not trying to be a d*ck or anything, it just seems like you are making a lot of work for yourself when you don't necessarily have to. Or is it that your group does not want to try 4e? I don't know... Again, this is not intended to be a rude remark or anything, just confused as to your ultimate goal with this project (and I can't really add my ideas without understanding what your aim is). Do you find this valuable?    
Xagyg
Xagyg
4. RE: Project Purpose
Jun 24 2008, 11:24 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 24 2008, 11:24 AM EDT
"I'm still confused as to why you want to convert 4e to 3e. Isn't 3e a complete system on its own? If there are problems with it, then why not try out 4e and see if you like that better?
I'm not trying to be a d*ck or anything, it just seems like you are making a lot of work for yourself when you don't necessarily have to. Or is it that your group does not want to try 4e? I don't know... Again, this is not intended to be a rude remark or anything, just confused as to your ultimate goal with this project (and I can't really add my ideas without understanding what your aim is)."
3.x has some major flaws, many of which have been addressed by house rules over the years. One hoped that 4e would be an evolution of 3.x, lessons learned and all that. Instead, it was a whole new game. So I'm trying to pluck nuggets of design from 4.0 that would have, in my opinion, been a part of a 3.x evolution, and then figuring out how to apply them within that framework.

To be honest, my group isn't going to adopt 4.0 as our regular system. I'm going to run Shadowfell and that's probably it. I'm hoping to have this system ready by the time that's over so we can start playtesting it. 4.0 had some good design particles, and I want to rip those out and apply them to a game my group actually enjoys playing.

So, in the end, I guess I'm designing a new system, using 3.x as the base assumption and imagining an alternate reality stream where WotC applied themselves to evolving 3.x rather than creating a new game. I want to make a new "edition" that still feels like D&D to me, fixes the problems with 3.x, and provides a better play experience for my group without some of the (to us) negative assumptions that 4.0 brings to the table.

I'm fairly certain I'm not articulating the goals that well, but I'd rather spend more time on the conversion at the moment. and less on coalescing my meta thoughts. :) Do you find this valuable?    
bishopkoko
bishopkoko
5. RE: Project Purpose
Jun 25 2008, 9:53 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2008, 9:53 AM EDT
Did you play 4th Ed with each other yet? Is D&D the only thing that you play? I have reservations as well about how the feel is changed a whole bunch. But at the same time, the new system seems awesome to me.

IMO, it's really all about role-playing for us. The game system is just the mechanics. The easier they are, the less you get bogged down in them, the more that you can role play. That's the point of all of this really.

As for coalescing your meta thoughts, Wow that's some far-reaching over speech. Well done. :-) Do you find this valuable?    
Xagyg
Xagyg
6. RE: Project Purpose
Jun 25 2008, 11:18 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2008, 11:18 AM EDT
"Did you play 4th Ed with each other yet? Is D&D the only thing that you play? I have reservations as well about how the feel is changed a whole bunch. But at the same time, the new system seems awesome to me.

IMO, it's really all about role-playing for us. The game system is just the mechanics. The easier they are, the less you get bogged down in them, the more that you can role play. That's the point of all of this really.

As for coalescing your meta thoughts, Wow that's some far-reaching over speech. Well done. :-)"
We haven't started playing our 4.0 game yet, but we did play at the GameDay. It's not that the system is heinous, it's just that there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to switch. I think it might be some buyer's fatigue as well...we have around 500 d20/3.x books sitting o nthe shelves, and at least a dozen games we haven't run yet that we want to. I like getting into the nuts and bolts of systems, which is another reason I'm doing this...it lets me really dig into 4.0 without actually having a game going. Do you find this valuable?    
bishopkoko
bishopkoko
7. RE: Project Purpose
Jun 25 2008, 12:08 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2008, 12:08 PM EDT
"We haven't started playing our 4.0 game yet, but we did play at the GameDay. It's not that the system is heinous, it's just that there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to switch. I think it might be some buyer's fatigue as well...we have around 500 d20/3.x books sitting o nthe shelves, and at least a dozen games we haven't run yet that we want to. I like getting into the nuts and bolts of systems, which is another reason I'm doing this...it lets me really dig into 4.0 without actually having a game going."
Wow, 500 books. That's insane. I don't really blame you. While I think it may be a mechanical nightmare you've set yourself up for, that may just be more as it applies to me and not the same with you. If you have any great discoveries, pro or con, post them here. I'd be curious to read about them.
And if you strongly like or dislike anything with 4E that you discover along the way, post that as well. I will do the same.
One thing I notice really right off the bat is that I can't get my head around Wizards not feeling like wizards any more. I like everything else so far. But it just seems like everything is now a mechanical effect. Things don't just happen because Wizards cast a cool spell. Have you guys seen the Illusionist build from Dragon mag online? All things have a damage effect, not just a trippy illusion effect that was wide open to the players imagination. And the durations are very short. Again tho, this is for the sake of complaining. I really like everything else so far. Do you find this valuable?    

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